Discussion post - episode 1

[yantantether]

I've just started a rewatch, and I thought it might be fun to put up discussion posts for anyone who's also rewatching, watching for the first time, or just has random thoughts. I'm watching on Viki, where there are 10 episodes of 45 minutes each, so I'll start with a short summary and then some brief thoughts of my own (and then hopefully everyone can join in in comments!) I'll aim to get these up twice a week, on Saturdays and Wednesdays.



Episode 1

We meet our leads! Tang Yi's efforts to move his gang into legit business and Meng Shao Fei's long-standing obsession with him are both sketched very vividly. We also get a quick picture of Jack's insouciance, Captain Shi and his hilarious exasperation with Meng Shao Fei, Zhao Zi and Meng Shao Fei's friendship, and Tang Yi's close relationship with Hong Ye. Following Tang Yi's confrontation with Wang Kunchen and the latter's murder, we learn that Chen Wenhao is returning from Cambodia and the joint police and Interpol investigation into him begins. The episode ends with Meng Shao Fei looking sadly at his mentor's ID card as he thinks of her.



I love just how quickly the vibe between Tang Yi and Meng Shao Fei comes across, with TY seemingly as cool as a cucumber and MSF all peacocky, frantic energy - maximum efficiency in a short show and a great credit to the writing and acting. I also love the lift scene for many reasons, but one is that we briefly see TY flustered. Having MSF all up in his face is clearly having an effect on him, before he turns the tables so delightfully.

It's clear from his comments about Tang Yi that Zhao Zi is already finding men attractive, even before Jack turns the mega-wattage of his flirting on him. I really like this - it's one reason that the drama feels so grounded in its queerness. Zhao Zi isn't "gay for you" he's just gay, even if he hasn't necessarily articulated it to himself yet.

MSF is SO EXTRA that the character could have potentially been a bit annoying, but he's just so funny and charming. The "again" in "I, Meng Shao Fei, am not afraid of getting sued by you again" really cracked me up. OH MSF.

JAAAAAAACK (that is all.)



(Mod, could we please have a rewatch/discussion tag?)

Comments

[her_cool_aunt]

Thank you for setting this up and giving me a ready-made rewatch schedule. Excellent! I tend to be very much around or completely off somewhere else (as I was the last couple of days having an intense Zhu Yilong moment), so this ties me to some structure.

And to the episode 1 thoughts . . .

The show has a really strong character start – showing us that Tang Yi is powerful and ballsy by burning the list. And I thought the lack of face shots of him until the Meng Shaofei confrontation was so we couldn’t see how young and attractive he is until he’s paired with MSF. The contrast between cool as a cucumber TY and hot-headed MSF is also set up (which we know later will be flipped when it comes to TY wanting to resort to violence and MSF calming him down).

In the tailor’s shop scene, based on what we see TY wearing first off, I initially thought he was making fun of MSF for his bad sartorial taste with the chosen suit. But then TY wears some quite “bold” patterns himself later, so maybe I’m mistaken.

How come MSF couldn’t even get a photo or photocopy a pic for his “wanted” poster?!

Quick aside: Is talking whilst eating not a taboo in Chinese or Taiwanese culture? I’ve also seen this in other C-dramas, and for me it's a bit jarring because I instinctively take it as a signal that a character is uncouth.

Even on my first watching, I understood that Jack was basically a skilled assassin type character, and that he himself did the hit on Wang Kunchen. I do wonder how Zhao Zi feels if this ever comes out in the future. (Presumably due to Jack’s Interpol connection, his record is wiped clean, though.) Jack’s deadly skill plus later his almost-childlike honesty and openness with ZZ feed into my weird Hanna-esque take on him. Although much later his negotiating with the Interpol boss kind of screws with this idea.

The post-shower scene with Hong-ye is great and from what we see here I really like her character, and the relationship between her and TY. She comes across as strong and capable, asking sensible questions, and all good things. (It’s only later that I start having issues with her portrayal!) One other thing I particularly like about this scene is that we see TY’s “soft” hair, which is symbolic as well as literal. I’m slightly confused by HY’s state of relative (un)dress, though – it doesn’t make sense to me. It’s like they were briefly setting us up to think she was TY's girlfriend. However, that possibility lasts for literally two seconds so maybe this scene was originally planned to be cut differently.

Re-watching, I love the lift scene even more than before!! One additional point to what I've said previously is that originally I was surprised that TY did react and get flustered/pushed backwards when MSF was all up in his face in the lift. But someone talked about TY’s “annoying crush” in a Twitter thread I saw, and I now find this a very telling lens through which to read this part of the scene. Once you think of it in those terms, you can see exactly why the usually smooth customer briefly isn’t so smooth. As a post-script to this scene, the humour of ZZ carrying the (still-attached) lift rail is brilliant.

When reporting to TY, I love the subtle powerplay between Jack and Ah-De, showing who is more in control. I also note that TY is reading a book in a foreign, Latin (?) alphabet language. I assume this is to show how clever and cultured he is. Not a typical brutish gang boss!

Final thought from this opening episode: how old do we think they’re all meant to be? The police team look like work-experience teenagers to me, but that could be because: (1) I’m old now, and (2) Chinese/Taiwanese actors often have a young appearance.

[yantantether]

How come MSF couldn’t even get a photo or photocopy a pic for his “wanted” poster?!
:D The extent of his obsession means taking the time to draw that really terrible picture!

It’s like they were briefly setting us up to think she was TY's girlfriend.
I definitely read it that way - not that she was, but that we were momentarily meant to think that she was.

[her_cool_aunt]

The extent of his obsession means taking the time to draw that really terrible picture!

Good point. This is obsession signalling. I love the fact that the actor Jake drew it himself! (see comment below)

[doctorskuld]

In the tailor’s shop scene, based on what we see TY wearing first off, I initially thought he was making fun of MSF for his bad sartorial taste with the chosen suit. But then TY wears some quite “bold” patterns himself later, so maybe I’m mistaken.

Same, but yeah, Tang Yi has some plaid suits too, and he makes the unusual choice of wearing a turtleneck inside his button-down shirt so...that's A Choice.

That horrific bow tie that MSF sports later, though...it looks like something you'd put on your puppy for Christmas. XDDDDD

How come MSF couldn’t even get a photo or photocopy a pic for his “wanted” poster?!

Because he wanted to draw it? He was that obsessed. (Fun fact: Jake actually drew that one!)

Quick aside: Is talking whilst eating not a taboo in Chinese or Taiwanese culture? I’ve also seen this in other C-dramas, and for me it's a bit jarring because I instinctively take it as a signal that a character is uncouth.

Meals are social activities in Chinese and Taiwanese culture, so it is not considered rude to talk while eating. I mean, you're socializing with family and friends! You're supposed to talk!

It is not considered especially rude to chew with your mouth open either, or make slurping noises over noodles.

I do wonder how Zhao Zi feels if this ever comes out in the future.

I Have Thoughts about this, but perhaps will save them for the Jack character discussion post, which I will put up after the rewatches have finished.

Jack’s deadly skill plus later his almost-childlike honesty and openness with ZZ feed into my weird Hanna-esque take on him. Although much later his negotiating with the Interpol boss kind of screws with this idea.

I don't feel that Jack is particularly child-like, but I do feel that he is open and earnest about his feelings toward Zhao Zi because he recognizes being that open and that honest is the only way to get Zhao Zi to believe him. I would also like to think that Jack is rather open about his feelings to himself. He realizes that he's fallen in love with Zhao Zi, and he wants to pursue a possibility of that relationship instead of deny it.

I haven't seen Hanna, but the character that I immediately connected Jack with when I first watched the series was Okita Sougo from Gintama. (Not sure if anybody else but me and naye are going to get that reference.)

I’m slightly confused by HY’s state of relative (un)dress, though – it doesn’t make sense to me.

Aaaah, it has just occurred to me that some people interpret that Hong Ye is also living in Tang Yi's house (I mean, it's pretty big, and she's over there pretty often). Perhaps she lives there too and is about to go to bed, or else she has a room there and is staying the night?

Final thought from this opening episode: how old do we think they’re all meant to be?

In this An An Superstar interview, it's stated that the four main characters are all supposed to be 28 years old, yes, including Zhao Zi. (Kenny Chen was actually 21 at the time, which is probably why Zhao Zi seems especially baby even though the character is supposed to be 28.)

My guess is that Zhou Guanzhi (Ah-Zhi) is a few years older than MSF and ZZ, since he was in on Captain Shi's thing four years ago. I have no basis for this, but I would guess that Jun Wei is close to MSF's age. Huang Yuqi calls MSF "senior" (equivalent to "senpai", if you're familiar with Japanese terms), so my guess is that he was older than her at police academy, but they are close enough in age that they would have attended the academy together, so there's probably only 4 years between them, maximum.

[her_cool_aunt]

That horrific bow tie that MSF sports later, though...it looks like something you'd put on your puppy for Christmas.

Dear god, yes! The bow is truly abysmal. I sort of love that he wears it, though, because to me this shows both that MSF is confident in himself and doesn't really care what others think (see also the frog sweatshirt), plus that TY hasn't "styled" him up.

Thank you for responding about the eating/talking thing. I had more or less come to this conclusion myself, but it's good to have it confirmed. Even knowing this, I still have an instinctive negative reaction (after decades of being socialised against!) so clearly I need to watch plenty more C- and T-dramas to unlearn that.

I don't feel that Jack is particularly child-like, but I do feel that he is open and earnest about his feelings toward Zhao Zi because he recognizes being that open and that honest is the only way to get Zhao Zi to believe him. I would also like to think that Jack is rather open about his feelings to himself.

On second thoughts, "child-like" is probably the wrong description. It just seems unusual for a martial guy to be so open and honest about his feelings and to approach a person they're interested in and thus a potential relationship with a sense of joyous, exploratory wonder (which has been my read of things so far). TBD further as I watch more I'm sure . . .

In this An An Superstar interview, it's stated that the four main characters are all supposed to be 28 years old

Interesting. There's NO way Kenny/ZZ could be 28 in my mind. For the other three, on looks alone I'd plump for early to mid 20s, but there are flashes of more mature attitudes and occasional angles where they could pass for that - particularly Chris/TY.

[doctorskuld]

I sort of love that he wears it, though, because to me this shows both that MSF is confident in himself and doesn't really care what others think (see also the frog sweatshirt),

That is a good point, actually. MSF does not give any shits about what others think about him, whether he's dating the head of an organized crime syndicate or wearing a matching pink kermit shirt his co-worker designed for a stakeout.

Or that awful, awful bowtie. JEEZUS.

It just seems unusual for a martial guy to be so open and honest about his feelings and to approach a person they're interested in and thus a potential relationship with a sense of joyous, exploratory wonder (which has been my read of things so far).

I think one of my favorite things about Jack is that he is one of those characters that defies expectations. You would expect him to be this stoic badass, given his competency, his place in the syndicate hierarchy, and his obvious skill at killing people and getting away with it. But instead he is this smirky trickster who plays for chaos and navigates his own feelings with surprisingly high emotional intelligence.

I feel that Jack is one of those people, like MSF, who likes what he likes (it does take a certain amount of flying in the face of convention to do what he does, including the killing in cold blood) and is honest to himself about that. The way that I see Jack is that he realizes he has never fallen in love, and what he sees is an opportunity to do something new and different and fun in being with Zhao Zi, something he's never done before. And he doesn't want to pass that up. He's been a mercenary, he's been a spy, he's killed people, had thrilling adventures, and put his life on the line, and that's what normal for him. Having a family and staying in one place isn't normal, and so that's what piques his curiosity.

But yeah, I agree that he approaches a possibility of a life with Zhao Zi with exploratory wonder. He literally doesn't know what that feels like, and I imagine it's that different thrill he wants to explore and embrace. And this is one chance.

I have a lot more thoughts on this, but I will save it for when we get to the right places in the rewatch...

ETA: Oops, there was more I wanted to say, sorry!

There's NO way Kenny/ZZ could be 28 in my mind.

I think ZZ is supposed to be the "looks like a cinnamon roll and is a cinnamon roll" character for age 28? Apparently they had a really, really hard time finding the right actor for ZZ. They needed someone who was the correct height, but also had the naive innocence that Zhao Zi possesses. They went through 70-something auditions before they found Kenny Chen, and they were holding his audition as they were already starting to put together the costumes for Jake, Chris, and Andy, so apparently it was really down to the wire! The director really wanted to find somebody who was just right. Apparently, Stanley Mei (who plays Li Zhide) originally auditioned for Zhao Zi.

For the other three, on looks alone I'd plump for early to mid 20s,

At the time of filming, Chris was 28-29, Jake was 27-28 (Chris and Jake had their birthdays during filming, and they have their birthdays on the same day, just one year apart) and Andy was 27.

I think East Asians just look younger?

[her_cool_aunt]

I think one of my favorite things about Jack is that he is one of those characters that defies expectations.

I like this more layered take on Jack, as compared to my more simplistic view on just one way in which this manifests. Nice!

[doctorskuld]

♥♥♥

...I should really try to hold my Jack feelings in for the rest of the rewatch and the inevitable character discussion post I will put up after.

[her_cool_aunt]

MSF does not give any shits about what others think about him, whether he's dating the head of an organized crime syndicate or wearing a matching pink kermit shirt his co-worker designed for a stakeout.

This reminded me that I wasn’t sure (possibly I’m being dense here, though) whether MSF knew he liked men before being attracted to TY. If - as I suspect from his lack of experience and lack of self-knowledge in regards to this attraction initially - this is a revelatory moment for MSF, then his embracing the desire for a relationship with TY makes him even bigger and bolder in his not giving any shits. Hurrah for MSF!!

[yantantether]

I *love* that they had to audition 70 people before finding Kenny, awwwwww. I just can't imagine anyone else having that same vibe with Andy. (And if they'd settled on someone a few auditions earlier, I bet Andy wouldn't now be going on a cruise with whoever it was ❤️)

[doctorskuld]

I just can't imagine anyone else having that same vibe with Andy.

I know, right? They have such a special and unique chemistry, the fact that they're actually friends and hang out together this long after filming...they genuinely connect with one another.

So much so that Andy bought them a cruise ticket to Okinawa. I mean...TWO DUDES. On a cruise.

If that's not gay, I don't know what "gay" is anymore.

They are so cute.

[yantantether]

Fun fact: Jake actually drew that one!
*lols forever*

Very glad to hear that about the slurping noises because, honestly, how are you *not* meant to slurp noodles?

[doctorskuld]

It is not possible to eat noodle soups without slurping! If you're in a Chinese restaurant and there are a lot of natives, don't sweat it!

[yantantether]

GREAT icon!! ❤️

[joatamon]

Jack’s deadly skill plus later his almost-childlike honesty and openness with ZZ feed into my weird Hanna-esque take on him.

This is such a GREAT take! I love the idea of him being essentially raised by wolves