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history3_trappedI've just started a rewatch, and I thought it might be fun to put up discussion posts for anyone who's also rewatching, watching for the first time, or just has random thoughts. I'm watching on Viki, where there are 10 episodes of 45 minutes each, so I'll start with a short summary and then some brief thoughts of my own (and then hopefully everyone can join in in comments!) I'll aim to get these up twice a week, on Saturdays and Wednesdays.
Episode 1
We meet our leads! Tang Yi's efforts to move his gang into legit business and Meng Shao Fei's long-standing obsession with him are both sketched very vividly. We also get a quick picture of Jack's insouciance, Captain Shi and his hilarious exasperation with Meng Shao Fei, Zhao Zi and Meng Shao Fei's friendship, and Tang Yi's close relationship with Hong Ye. Following Tang Yi's confrontation with Wang Kunchen and the latter's murder, we learn that Chen Wenhao is returning from Cambodia and the joint police and Interpol investigation into him begins. The episode ends with Meng Shao Fei looking sadly at his mentor's ID card as he thinks of her.
I love just how quickly the vibe between Tang Yi and Meng Shao Fei comes across, with TY seemingly as cool as a cucumber and MSF all peacocky, frantic energy - maximum efficiency in a short show and a great credit to the writing and acting. I also love the lift scene for many reasons, but one is that we briefly see TY flustered. Having MSF all up in his face is clearly having an effect on him, before he turns the tables so delightfully.
It's clear from his comments about Tang Yi that Zhao Zi is already finding men attractive, even before Jack turns the mega-wattage of his flirting on him. I really like this - it's one reason that the drama feels so grounded in its queerness. Zhao Zi isn't "gay for you" he's just gay, even if he hasn't necessarily articulated it to himself yet.
MSF is SO EXTRA that the character could have potentially been a bit annoying, but he's just so funny and charming. The "again" in "I, Meng Shao Fei, am not afraid of getting sued by you again" really cracked me up. OH MSF.
JAAAAAAACK (that is all.)
(Mod, could we please have a rewatch/discussion tag?)
Episode 1
We meet our leads! Tang Yi's efforts to move his gang into legit business and Meng Shao Fei's long-standing obsession with him are both sketched very vividly. We also get a quick picture of Jack's insouciance, Captain Shi and his hilarious exasperation with Meng Shao Fei, Zhao Zi and Meng Shao Fei's friendship, and Tang Yi's close relationship with Hong Ye. Following Tang Yi's confrontation with Wang Kunchen and the latter's murder, we learn that Chen Wenhao is returning from Cambodia and the joint police and Interpol investigation into him begins. The episode ends with Meng Shao Fei looking sadly at his mentor's ID card as he thinks of her.
I love just how quickly the vibe between Tang Yi and Meng Shao Fei comes across, with TY seemingly as cool as a cucumber and MSF all peacocky, frantic energy - maximum efficiency in a short show and a great credit to the writing and acting. I also love the lift scene for many reasons, but one is that we briefly see TY flustered. Having MSF all up in his face is clearly having an effect on him, before he turns the tables so delightfully.
It's clear from his comments about Tang Yi that Zhao Zi is already finding men attractive, even before Jack turns the mega-wattage of his flirting on him. I really like this - it's one reason that the drama feels so grounded in its queerness. Zhao Zi isn't "gay for you" he's just gay, even if he hasn't necessarily articulated it to himself yet.
MSF is SO EXTRA that the character could have potentially been a bit annoying, but he's just so funny and charming. The "again" in "I, Meng Shao Fei, am not afraid of getting sued by you again" really cracked me up. OH MSF.
JAAAAAAACK (that is all.)
(Mod, could we please have a rewatch/discussion tag?)
no subject
Date: 4 Jan 2020 22:40 (UTC)Have tagged the entry now!
You know it's always bad news for you as a fangirl when the first time a character cocks a gun, you think "OH NO, HE'S CUTE." (JAAAAACK! ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥)
I have watched the first episode loads of times, but upon this rewatch, I noticed that during the entire first scene, you never get a solid shot of Tang Yi's face. You see part of it, or its distorted in the ceiling reflection. It's not until he's walking out of the place and MSF chases him down, that you get a good look at him. Nice little directorial details like that in Trapped make all the difference!
I think that Jack's character is set up really well in the introduction scene too. You can glean a lot from his personality, just in the way he faces down three pistols at point-blank range all calm and collected, and in the way he places his gun into the hand of the guy he's just beaten up with a little grin. "Hold onto this for me!" As if that was just an incredibly delightful fight that he enjoyed and the cherry on top is that the police aren't even going to be able to ding him for illegal possession of a firearm.
Also, Zhao Zi looks actually competent at policing when he's holding a gun (even if his trigger discipline isn't great), which makes me secretly headcanon him as surprisingly dependable with a firearm.
The "again" in "I, Meng Shao Fei, am not afraid of getting sued by you again" really cracked me up. OH MSF.
My brain tripped over the "again" when I watched this the first time, and I remember thinking, "Wait, how big of a walking disaster is this guy?"
(Looking back, the show vastly exceeded my expectations on MSF being a complete disaster.)
Oh, poor Captain Shi of Unit Three. The way that Zhao Zi looks like a scolded puppy while he's fanning him...I'm surprised the poor man hasn't had a heart attack from stress because of the children he's in charge of.
My first laugh out loud moment during this show was the incredible comedic timing of:
ZHAO ZI
Should we call the police?
JACK
with a smirk
Aren't you the police?
and Zhao Zi looks chagrined. (I think Kenny was actually close to corpsing, you can see his little smile.)
One of the things I've also noticed upon rewatches is...Tang Yi is lying there, on the ground, in the crime scene photos.
...OMG they just left him there bleeding out while they took photos? Shouldn't they have rushed him off to the hospital? JEEZ, NO WONDER HE ALMOST DIED! XDDDDD
At the tailor's...do you guys think it's possible that Tang Yi is trolling MSF when he says that the suit looks good on him? ('Cause that suit looks horrible IMHO.)
It's clear from his comments about Tang Yi that Zhao Zi is already finding men attractive, even before Jack turns the mega-wattage of his flirting on him.
I love this bit so much. I think it's very cute that Zhao Zi has cottoned onto MSF's latent attraction to TY, but he completely fails at recognizing (or acknowledging) his own later crush on Jack. (And when he talks about TY having a nice smile...guess who else we've seen so far this episode who has a nice smile.)
I think this episode has done really well at setting up Zuo Hong Ye as well, as a character. During her first introduction, when she's sprawled on TY's bed, at first I thought, "Oh no, is that his girlfriend?" and then it's revealed she's his sister, and you really feel her love and worry for him, and how upset she is that TY is bearing the entire burden of trying to clean up the syndicate.
AND THEN THE LIFT SCENE. I...don't know even know where to begin with this, so I will let someone else take the lead on the amazing back-and-forth between TY and MSF here.
Can I just say that Jack's little smirk at Ah-De as they are discussing plans for Wang Kunchen is everything. He can clearly tell that Li Zhide is wound up tight and takes petty things incredibly seriously, and he takes obvious pleasure in riling Ah-De up because of it.
Following Tang Yi's confrontation with Wang Kunchen and the latter's murder
Speaking of which...are we all in agreement here that Jack is the one who killed him?
I didn't realize it the first watch through, but upon subsequent viewings, they make it very clear that Jack is supposed to be there, that he 'knows what to do', and yet you don't see him with TY's party at the actual confrontation. I can only conclude that Jack murdered him. Or assassinated, if one prefers that word.
But I'm pretty sure Jack just straight up killed a dude. (And I'm also sure this is far from the first dude he's killed.)
the joint police and Interpol investigation into him begins.
Oh yeah, this is also the first hint we get that MSF did something previously (the Thailand case) to mess up Interpol's plans. It's frustrating we don't get more detail! WHAT DID SHAO FEI DO??? WHAT DID HE DO?
AAAAH, sorry for the long reaction post! I HAVE SO MANY FEELS AND THOUGHTS!
no subject
Date: 5 Jan 2020 05:04 (UTC)the way he places his gun into the hand of the guy he's just beaten up with a little grin - jack's almost constant grin is AMAZING and says so much about the character. what a great performance choice!
(I think Kenny was actually close to corpsing, you can see his little smile.) - i just had to find the scene again, and yep, that's totally visible! thank you for pointing it out :D
(And when he talks about TY having a nice smile...guess who else we've seen so far this episode who has a nice smile.) - LOL THIS.
he takes obvious pleasure in riling Ah-De up because of it - omg exactly. jack may be a super competent merc, but he's also a trickster/chaos agent by nature.
I'm pretty sure Jack just straight up killed a dude. (And I'm also sure this is far from the first dude he's killed.) - agreed on both counts, and also much clearer on the rewatch than the first time i saw the episode. which makes jack pretty scary. when we were watching the eps as they aired, we spent much time wondering if jack would end up as the morality lesson by the end of the show, since he was portrayed as quite cold-blooded.
this is also the first hint we get that MSF did something previously (the Thailand case) to mess up Interpol's plans - YES OMG I AM WITH YOU ON THIS! WHAT DID HE DO?!?!?
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Date: 5 Jan 2020 08:55 (UTC)That's such a good way of describing him. And this plus him being the assassin of Wang Kunchen is giving me even MORE feelings about him being so soft for Zhao Zi and wanting so badly to take care of him.
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Date: 5 Jan 2020 10:48 (UTC)One of the things that is often bouncing around my head is how exactly Zhao Zi will react when he finds out that Jack has actually killed people (emphasis on the plural) in cold blood - not out of self-defense, not by accident, but because he was instructed, because it was part of his job.
How would Zhao Zi initially react to his househusband actually being a killer?
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Date: 5 Mar 2020 17:05 (UTC)no subject
Date: 6 Mar 2020 21:46 (UTC)no subject
Date: 6 Mar 2020 23:26 (UTC)Thanks for the link!
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Date: 7 Mar 2020 12:24 (UTC)no subject
Date: 5 Jan 2020 11:49 (UTC)In steebee and weilongfu's translation of the novelization, I specifically went to read the scene where they are supposed to have the briefing with Interpol...and that scene is cut from the novelization.
*FRUSTRATION*
I want to know what happened in Thailand. I mean, it's implied that it involved Xin Tian Meng, somehow, right, which was why Shao Fei acted so brashly? I WANT TO KNOWWWWWWWW
no subject
Date: 5 Jan 2020 08:43 (UTC)I *love* Jack popping up like a troll with "Aren't you the police?" And I hadn't quite picked up on that it's him who kills Wang Kunchen but you're completely right - who else could it be?
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Date: 5 Jan 2020 11:56 (UTC)YES, THIS! Their back-and-forth is absolutely great. I love it when Captain Shi yells at Shao Fei, and his sarcasm and manner. I think their relationship with each other is another great dimension to the show.
I *love* Jack popping up like a troll with "Aren't you the police?"
Jack...has a mouth on him when he wants to. He truly will just throw remarks out there to increase the entropy in the room. XDDD
And yeah, I'm sure he's the one who kills Wang Kunchen, but how does he get away? There's another dude with Wang Kunchen. Wait, did Jack just straight up kill two dudes?!
P.S. I tweaked my Jack icon a bit, you may have version 2.0 if you like!
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Date: 5 Jan 2020 20:56 (UTC)Yes! Of course. What was he going to do - leave a witness? Some people in this show are actually good at their jobs. XD
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Date: 5 Jan 2020 21:24 (UTC)SOMEONE has to be :D
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Date: 5 Jan 2020 21:30 (UTC)no subject
Date: 5 Jan 2020 21:32 (UTC)It's pretty sad that Jack is the only person out of the main four who's good at his job. That goes for being both Tang Yi's enforcer and a spy.
That's TWO JOBS he's doing.
Meanwhile, MSF is like "Tang Yi is not the kind of person who would order a hit on Wang Kunchen."
*five minutes later*
"SHIIIIIIIT."
He is so, so wrong about so many things. *facepalms*
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Date: 6 Jan 2020 12:22 (UTC)I think that’s a little bit of a harsh judgement on Tang Yi. Surely he’s doing at least a reasonable job of being a gang leader and legitimising the businesses? At least until he lets Meng Shaofei come and live with him.
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Date: 6 Jan 2020 12:34 (UTC)I think he's doing an OK job, but the end of the series makes it clear that he has to go atone for his crimes because of his failure to escape being ensnared by his need for revenge and his inability to let go of the past. Who's legitimizing his syndicate while he's in prison?
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Date: 6 Jan 2020 13:11 (UTC)Yes, you’re right. TY does get sidetracked by prioritising his personal revenge but fundamentally he’s competent and doing a competent job (or so it appears). I see much less of MSF and ZZ being basically competent at their jobs. I guess the answer to this question overall depends on whether you see everything TY does for four years as a personally driven diversion, or just the final time period seen in the 10 episodes.
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Date: 6 Jan 2020 13:54 (UTC)I don't think it's ever explicitly stated, but in the novelization epilogue, he only serves a three-year sentence (highlight to see spoilers). So, I would imagine that the only evidence the prosecution can really get on him is for attempting to kill Zhou Guan Zhi and shooting MSF.
I see much less of MSF and ZZ being basically competent at their jobs.
I headcanon that MSF is actually somewhat a decent detective, he just has a handicap for TY and the whole Xin Tian Meng stuff, so he always rolls low whenever it's a TY-related case.
ZZ googling "What to do if a guy confesses to you" at work is probably the best thing everrrrrr. XDDDDD
I guess the answer to this question overall depends on whether you see everything TY does for four years as a personally driven diversion, or just the final time period seen in the 10 episodes.
This is a good point. All joking aside, TY is also pretty competent, but again he has a handicap for things related Tang Guo Dong, so rolls incredibly low. XDDDDD
no subject
Date: 5 Jan 2020 04:45 (UTC)i love the way the pilot episode sets up the show. there's a lot of history at play, but it's presented very dynamically (later eps get a little more exposition-y with flashbacks and recounted memories etc). that opening scene, with tang yi filmed like smooth criminal/power from the shadows, and jack too cool to let himself be implicated even as he's arrested in the middle of a literal standoff? AMAZING. and i love tang yi's use of the Significant Lighter to set on fire the debt he owes to the other gang.
i also LOVE the first confrontation between tang yi and msf (tho i did kind of yell at a cop for pointing a gun at an unarmed civilian... dude, come on). you can tell there have in fact been four freakin' years of msf yelling righteously after tang yi, and tang yi being wayyyy too skilled to fall for it... but he also secretly respects the passion behind it, even as he's super annoyed by all the hassle. he can probably relate to msf's fervor in pursuing justice for a mentor's murder, which is what they have in common from the very start.
the tailor shop scene is DELIGHTFUL; it looks like msf never had the chance to observe tang yi that closely before. i love that he knows his schedule by heart and that he's noticed the regularity of it in the past year. this might be related to tang yi turning to the legal side of his businesses, and letting his second/third in command handle gang operations - he's accompanied by either jack or li zhide wherever he goes, and they both seem to run things on his behalf the rest of the time. since jack joined his gang about a year ago, he was probably hired by tang yi to help facilitate that process... anyway. another observation: msf discovers that tang yi can speak tenderly to someone, and it's ADORABLE.
poor captain shi. so much yelling to do, so little time... (btw, note on interior design choices: that green/living wall in the police station is a+++.)
after the gratuitous shower scene - thank you, female gaze among the production crew - we meet hong ye, who is as protective of her big brother as he is of her, which i love. i cracked up at her "i won't tell you who told me what's happening w the gang and the police bc if you keep firing people who tell me stuff, you'll end up without a crew" line. (their convo shows that tang yi is separating gang business from legal business and that he's ruthless in that separation - he's tough and determined as a leader.) she knows he's up to something, even if he doesn't want to involve her. and she's rightfully worried, after losing their father figure and almost losing her big brother 4yrs ago. i did LOL at her observation that he's getting too close with msf - oh, the foreshadowing! :D
AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH THE ELEVATOR SCENE. i can't believe msf physically fights his way into the elevator, and then tries to give tang yi A GIFT OF KEYCHAIN (okay, it's a troll-y gift, but STILL). by this point, tang yi is self-aware enough to know he finds msf sort of vaguely, annoyingly attractive (i would bet some cash money he's had a fantasy or two about hate sex with the dogged cop - he's got a healthy imagination, okay - but he'd never pursue it) whereas msf is utterly oblivious, bless his socks. and he's trying to intimidate someone very intimidating, except he's SUCH A CINNAMON ROLL that he's playacting like a tough cop - and once he notices tang yi's blush, he laughs that his move worked at all?! OH MSF, YOU ADORABLE FAILBOAT.
and THEN tang yi decides to turn the police intimidation move, as playful as it was, into gangster intimidation with a side of gay chicken, and it all ends in handcuffs and an extremely flustered msf. (i'd also like to credit zz for planting the thought into msf's head that his obsession might be... a little more than just professional interest, because you know that thought flashes thru msf's mind when tang yi reaches for his back pocket.) i love that the dip in the elevator is filmed from like three angles and played in a cadence including slow motion, because that's totally when msf "fell" for the first time. (side note: i bet tang yi's wearing some tom ford fragrance & smells like very expensive, darkly dreamy sex.)
....right, where were we? oh yes - episode recap.
we see tang yi dealing with yet another kingpin, except as cool as he was in the opening scene, here he gets a bit hotheaded... because this confrontation is both a more direct threat, and personal.
i adore zz's purple-and-blue sweater and want one for myself. (it's the same sweater he wears the first time jack kisses him!)
interpol and unit 3 join forces to investigate the cambodian drug dealer's murder. tang yi, li zhide and jack were all caught on camera going to a party... but other cameras covering the building were damaged, so none of their alibis are 100% airtight. (besides, we saw tang yi and li zhide meeting with them, with jack presumably hiding in the trunk until he gets the chance to kill the kingpin, so... not a huge mystery.) the tension between the police unit and interpol is palpable and super understandable. i am sorry to report that i'm CHARMED over msf having a BAD REP among the interpol people - the cinnamon roll is the resident hothead!
finally, msf and his adorable cowlick are sadly sitting in the window and gazing at the SUBTLY SYMBOLIC PUZZLE BOX (the music box he got from his mentor). so many tropes, so many more to come!!! what a fun, fun show :D
no subject
Date: 5 Jan 2020 08:25 (UTC)HEAD CANON ACCEPTED
And, yeah, fic from Tang Yi's pov this early on, including his musings about how MSF's intense energy could be better channeled (eg while naked) would be GOOD TIMES.
no subject
Date: 5 Jan 2020 12:36 (UTC)You know, I had actually made that connection before, between Jack's appearance in the gang and the regularity of Tang Yi's scheduled, but you are totally on the money. That's an excellent observation!
another observation: msf discovers that tang yi can speak tenderly to someone, and it's ADORABLE.
Y E S. Zhao Zi is so right about MSF's crush on TY.
"If you pursued girls with as much intensity as you pursued Tang Yi, you'd have a dozen kids by now" INDEED.
(i would bet some cash money he's had a fantasy or two about hate sex with the dogged cop - he's got a healthy imagination, okay - but he'd never pursue it)
OH MY GOD, I had never considered that possibility before either, but I absolutely love it. OF COURSE Tang Yi has actually fantasized about having hatesex with MSF. Of course. *eyes the plot bunny farm*
into gangster intimidation with a side of gay chicken,
I almost spit out my coffee this morning reading this line. XDDDDD What an absolutely apt description.
(i'd also like to credit zz for planting the thought into msf's head that his obsession might be... a little more than just professional interest, because you know that thought flashes thru msf's mind when tang yi reaches for his back pocket.)
"You better not do anything!..." says MSF nervously as he realizes that oh no, Tang Yi smells like very expensive, darkly dreamy sex.
i adore zz's purple-and-blue sweater and want one for myself.
I love his purple and blue sweater. I love that Zhao Zi's style is 'sweater town' and just imagining him wearing that while holding hands with leather-jacket-motorcycle-gloves Jack makes me feel fizzy on the inside.
i am sorry to report that i'm CHARMED over msf having a BAD REP among the interpol people - the cinnamon roll is the resident hothead!
He is such a disaster. Can you imagine the Interpol Division hearing that they're working a case with Unit Three again and the groans that are heard across the office? Not that guy again.
no subject
Date: 5 Jan 2020 21:39 (UTC)I'm not quite sure how, but during my first viewing I just didn't get this attraction thing so early on. So I was confused by TY giving MSF the advantage for a moment there. I think it's clearer if you think through the four previous years and what the first interaction between TY and MSF means in that context. I needed more obvious signals and less subtext. During my first watch, someone else pointed out the annoyed attraction thing, which suddenly made this - and TY's subsequent quite speedy fall into proper interest in MSF - make much more sense. So now I can re-watch and it all fits.
no subject
Date: 5 Jan 2020 17:38 (UTC)And to the episode 1 thoughts . . .
The show has a really strong character start – showing us that Tang Yi is powerful and ballsy by burning the list. And I thought the lack of face shots of him until the Meng Shaofei confrontation was so we couldn’t see how young and attractive he is until he’s paired with MSF. The contrast between cool as a cucumber TY and hot-headed MSF is also set up (which we know later will be flipped when it comes to TY wanting to resort to violence and MSF calming him down).
In the tailor’s shop scene, based on what we see TY wearing first off, I initially thought he was making fun of MSF for his bad sartorial taste with the chosen suit. But then TY wears some quite “bold” patterns himself later, so maybe I’m mistaken.
How come MSF couldn’t even get a photo or photocopy a pic for his “wanted” poster?!
Quick aside: Is talking whilst eating not a taboo in Chinese or Taiwanese culture? I’ve also seen this in other C-dramas, and for me it's a bit jarring because I instinctively take it as a signal that a character is uncouth.
Even on my first watching, I understood that Jack was basically a skilled assassin type character, and that he himself did the hit on Wang Kunchen. I do wonder how Zhao Zi feels if this ever comes out in the future. (Presumably due to Jack’s Interpol connection, his record is wiped clean, though.) Jack’s deadly skill plus later his almost-childlike honesty and openness with ZZ feed into my weird Hanna-esque take on him. Although much later his negotiating with the Interpol boss kind of screws with this idea.
The post-shower scene with Hong-ye is great and from what we see here I really like her character, and the relationship between her and TY. She comes across as strong and capable, asking sensible questions, and all good things. (It’s only later that I start having issues with her portrayal!) One other thing I particularly like about this scene is that we see TY’s “soft” hair, which is symbolic as well as literal. I’m slightly confused by HY’s state of relative (un)dress, though – it doesn’t make sense to me. It’s like they were briefly setting us up to think she was TY's girlfriend. However, that possibility lasts for literally two seconds so maybe this scene was originally planned to be cut differently.
Re-watching, I love the lift scene even more than before!! One additional point to what I've said previously is that originally I was surprised that TY did react and get flustered/pushed backwards when MSF was all up in his face in the lift. But someone talked about TY’s “annoying crush” in a Twitter thread I saw, and I now find this a very telling lens through which to read this part of the scene. Once you think of it in those terms, you can see exactly why the usually smooth customer briefly isn’t so smooth. As a post-script to this scene, the humour of ZZ carrying the (still-attached) lift rail is brilliant.
When reporting to TY, I love the subtle powerplay between Jack and Ah-De, showing who is more in control. I also note that TY is reading a book in a foreign, Latin (?) alphabet language. I assume this is to show how clever and cultured he is. Not a typical brutish gang boss!
Final thought from this opening episode: how old do we think they’re all meant to be? The police team look like work-experience teenagers to me, but that could be because: (1) I’m old now, and (2) Chinese/Taiwanese actors often have a young appearance.
no subject
Date: 5 Jan 2020 19:29 (UTC):D The extent of his obsession means taking the time to draw that really terrible picture!
It’s like they were briefly setting us up to think she was TY's girlfriend.
I definitely read it that way - not that she was, but that we were momentarily meant to think that she was.
no subject
Date: 5 Jan 2020 21:24 (UTC)Good point. This is obsession signalling. I love the fact that the actor Jake drew it himself! (see comment below)
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Date: 5 Jan 2020 20:01 (UTC)Same, but yeah, Tang Yi has some plaid suits too, and he makes the unusual choice of wearing a turtleneck inside his button-down shirt so...that's A Choice.
That horrific bow tie that MSF sports later, though...it looks like something you'd put on your puppy for Christmas. XDDDDD
How come MSF couldn’t even get a photo or photocopy a pic for his “wanted” poster?!
Because he wanted to draw it? He was that obsessed. (Fun fact: Jake actually drew that one!)
Quick aside: Is talking whilst eating not a taboo in Chinese or Taiwanese culture? I’ve also seen this in other C-dramas, and for me it's a bit jarring because I instinctively take it as a signal that a character is uncouth.
Meals are social activities in Chinese and Taiwanese culture, so it is not considered rude to talk while eating. I mean, you're socializing with family and friends! You're supposed to talk!
It is not considered especially rude to chew with your mouth open either, or make slurping noises over noodles.
I do wonder how Zhao Zi feels if this ever comes out in the future.
I Have Thoughts about this, but perhaps will save them for the Jack character discussion post, which I will put up after the rewatches have finished.
Jack’s deadly skill plus later his almost-childlike honesty and openness with ZZ feed into my weird Hanna-esque take on him. Although much later his negotiating with the Interpol boss kind of screws with this idea.
I don't feel that Jack is particularly child-like, but I do feel that he is open and earnest about his feelings toward Zhao Zi because he recognizes being that open and that honest is the only way to get Zhao Zi to believe him. I would also like to think that Jack is rather open about his feelings to himself. He realizes that he's fallen in love with Zhao Zi, and he wants to pursue a possibility of that relationship instead of deny it.
I haven't seen Hanna, but the character that I immediately connected Jack with when I first watched the series was Okita Sougo from Gintama. (Not sure if anybody else but me and
I’m slightly confused by HY’s state of relative (un)dress, though – it doesn’t make sense to me.
Aaaah, it has just occurred to me that some people interpret that Hong Ye is also living in Tang Yi's house (I mean, it's pretty big, and she's over there pretty often). Perhaps she lives there too and is about to go to bed, or else she has a room there and is staying the night?
Final thought from this opening episode: how old do we think they’re all meant to be?
In this An An Superstar interview, it's stated that the four main characters are all supposed to be 28 years old, yes, including Zhao Zi. (Kenny Chen was actually 21 at the time, which is probably why Zhao Zi seems especially baby even though the character is supposed to be 28.)
My guess is that Zhou Guanzhi (Ah-Zhi) is a few years older than MSF and ZZ, since he was in on Captain Shi's thing four years ago. I have no basis for this, but I would guess that Jun Wei is close to MSF's age. Huang Yuqi calls MSF "senior" (equivalent to "senpai", if you're familiar with Japanese terms), so my guess is that he was older than her at police academy, but they are close enough in age that they would have attended the academy together, so there's probably only 4 years between them, maximum.
no subject
Date: 5 Jan 2020 21:21 (UTC)Dear god, yes! The bow is truly abysmal. I sort of love that he wears it, though, because to me this shows both that MSF is confident in himself and doesn't really care what others think (see also the frog sweatshirt), plus that TY hasn't "styled" him up.
Thank you for responding about the eating/talking thing. I had more or less come to this conclusion myself, but it's good to have it confirmed. Even knowing this, I still have an instinctive negative reaction (after decades of being socialised against!) so clearly I need to watch plenty more C- and T-dramas to unlearn that.
On second thoughts, "child-like" is probably the wrong description. It just seems unusual for a martial guy to be so open and honest about his feelings and to approach a person they're interested in and thus a potential relationship with a sense of joyous, exploratory wonder (which has been my read of things so far). TBD further as I watch more I'm sure . . .
Interesting. There's NO way Kenny/ZZ could be 28 in my mind. For the other three, on looks alone I'd plump for early to mid 20s, but there are flashes of more mature attitudes and occasional angles where they could pass for that - particularly Chris/TY.
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Date: 5 Jan 2020 21:48 (UTC)That is a good point, actually. MSF does not give any shits about what others think about him, whether he's dating the head of an organized crime syndicate or wearing a matching pink kermit shirt his co-worker designed for a stakeout.
Or that awful, awful bowtie. JEEZUS.
It just seems unusual for a martial guy to be so open and honest about his feelings and to approach a person they're interested in and thus a potential relationship with a sense of joyous, exploratory wonder (which has been my read of things so far).
I think one of my favorite things about Jack is that he is one of those characters that defies expectations. You would expect him to be this stoic badass, given his competency, his place in the syndicate hierarchy, and his obvious skill at killing people and getting away with it. But instead he is this smirky trickster who plays for chaos and navigates his own feelings with surprisingly high emotional intelligence.
I feel that Jack is one of those people, like MSF, who likes what he likes (it does take a certain amount of flying in the face of convention to do what he does, including the killing in cold blood) and is honest to himself about that. The way that I see Jack is that he realizes he has never fallen in love, and what he sees is an opportunity to do something new and different and fun in being with Zhao Zi, something he's never done before. And he doesn't want to pass that up. He's been a mercenary, he's been a spy, he's killed people, had thrilling adventures, and put his life on the line, and that's what normal for him. Having a family and staying in one place isn't normal, and so that's what piques his curiosity.
But yeah, I agree that he approaches a possibility of a life with Zhao Zi with exploratory wonder. He literally doesn't know what that feels like, and I imagine it's that different thrill he wants to explore and embrace. And this is one chance.
I have a lot more thoughts on this, but I will save it for when we get to the right places in the rewatch...
ETA: Oops, there was more I wanted to say, sorry!
There's NO way Kenny/ZZ could be 28 in my mind.
I think ZZ is supposed to be the "looks like a cinnamon roll and is a cinnamon roll" character for age 28? Apparently they had a really, really hard time finding the right actor for ZZ. They needed someone who was the correct height, but also had the naive innocence that Zhao Zi possesses. They went through 70-something auditions before they found Kenny Chen, and they were holding his audition as they were already starting to put together the costumes for Jake, Chris, and Andy, so apparently it was really down to the wire! The director really wanted to find somebody who was just right. Apparently, Stanley Mei (who plays Li Zhide) originally auditioned for Zhao Zi.
For the other three, on looks alone I'd plump for early to mid 20s,
At the time of filming, Chris was 28-29, Jake was 27-28 (Chris and Jake had their birthdays during filming, and they have their birthdays on the same day, just one year apart) and Andy was 27.
I think East Asians just look younger?
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Date: 5 Jan 2020 22:09 (UTC)I like this more layered take on Jack, as compared to my more simplistic view on just one way in which this manifests. Nice!
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Date: 5 Jan 2020 22:11 (UTC)...I should really try to hold my Jack feelings in for the rest of the rewatch and the inevitable character discussion post I will put up after.
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Date: 5 Jan 2020 22:29 (UTC)This reminded me that I wasn’t sure (possibly I’m being dense here, though) whether MSF knew he liked men before being attracted to TY. If - as I suspect from his lack of experience and lack of self-knowledge in regards to this attraction initially - this is a revelatory moment for MSF, then his embracing the desire for a relationship with TY makes him even bigger and bolder in his not giving any shits. Hurrah for MSF!!
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Date: 5 Jan 2020 22:36 (UTC)no subject
Date: 5 Jan 2020 23:23 (UTC)I know, right? They have such a special and unique chemistry, the fact that they're actually friends and hang out together this long after filming...they genuinely connect with one another.
So much so that Andy bought them a cruise ticket to Okinawa. I mean...TWO DUDES. On a cruise.
If that's not gay, I don't know what "gay" is anymore.
They are so cute.
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Date: 5 Jan 2020 21:22 (UTC)*lols forever*
Very glad to hear that about the slurping noises because, honestly, how are you *not* meant to slurp noodles?
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Date: 5 Jan 2020 22:02 (UTC)no subject
Date: 5 Jan 2020 22:36 (UTC)no subject
Date: 5 Mar 2020 18:27 (UTC)This is such a GREAT take! I love the idea of him being essentially raised by wolves
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Date: 6 Jan 2020 22:39 (UTC)I agree,MSF could have been annoying but he wasn't?!I was charmed,absolutely and just loved the way he stayed on track with his investigation even after years-that stubbornness, maybe because he really cared to solve the mystery from 4 years ago very genuinely,could be the reason he wasn't annoying.Though paired with Tang Yi's calm/cool don like character-ah yes,I loved that!
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Date: 7 Jan 2020 07:09 (UTC)You can just see MSF's warm sweetness starting to charm Tang Yi (not quite yet in this ep I guess, but very soon) and it's so nice!