Discussion post - episode 9

[yantantether]

Tang Yi and Chen Wen Hao face away from each other as Meng Shao Fei brandishes Tang Yi's birth certificate between them and we go into a FLASHBACK. Li Li Zhen and Tang Guo Dong are visiting Chen Wen Hao in prison. Li Li Zhen has obviously recently learned that her boyfriend didn't just pop out for some milk and never come back, but is in fact a convicted mobster. She angrily breaks up with him and claims to have had an abortion.

Back in the present, Meng Shao Fei seems to be trying to effect a family reunion between Tang Yi and Chen Wen Hao and unsurprisingly Tang Yi is unimpressed. Chen Wen Hao denies killing Tang Guo Dong.

Another flashback! Chen Wen Hao finds Li Li Zhen and Tang Guo Dong dead, but doesn't clearly see who shot them. He then shoots Tang Yi (by accident?) when he suddenly appears.

In the present, Tang Yi is desperate to kill Chen Wen Hao, but Meng Shao Fei tries to reason with him. Tang Yi shoves him pretty roughly and drives away. Meng Shao Fei follows him home and finds him sitting in the bath fully clothed (this made me giggle even though it's a serious moment. Sorry, Tang Yi!) Tang Yi kisses him desperately, violently. Kissing turns into crying and Meng Shao Fei cradles him.



Jack meets with his Interpol contact by the river. He hands over info on Xin Tian Meng and Chen Wen Hao, and then offers to go infiltrate Chen Wen Hao's drug-smuggling operation. I wonder why he does this right now when he's obviously so stupid over Zhao Zi. Does he genuinely think that Zhao Zi doesn't like him back so he may as well go and be dangerous in Cambodia?

Zhao Zi comes home in the rain and finds Jack waiting for him.



Zhao Zi is obviously worried about him, but when Jack asks him if he likes him back he doesn't reply and he ducks away when Jack tries to kiss him. (Jack! In this particular circumstance, maybe waiting till you're not right outside your shy, would-be boyf's front door in full view of any neighbours watching would have been a better plan.)

BUT THEN. Zhao Zi tells him, "When I saw you outside just now it already cheered me up... my heart felt warm."



Zhao Zi is smiling with his whole self and THAT is him making his declaration. They cook together and it's super sweet.



Next, Captain Shi and his daughter are wedding dress shopping. He cries when he sees her in the dress and it unexpectedly makes me teary (awwww, Captain Shi.) Then Jun Wei brings the news to the rest of the police department that the captain had turned himself in. Ah-Zhi leaves, sharpish. Zhao Zi (perceptive as always) works out that the captain's perfidy must have had it's origins in his daughter's need for a bone marrow donor, five years before.

Meng Shao Fei gets up to find Tang Yi cooking and being determinedly cheerful. Meng Shao Fei tries to make him hand over Tang Guo Dong's killer to the police, if he finds out whodunnit.

The cops set out looking for Ah-Zhi, who is currently in karaoke hell with a mobster who he's trying to persuade to help him leave the country. Next up doing unenthusiastic singing in a different room is Chen Wen Hao. Coming out of gangster karaoke central he runs into Ah-Zhi and recognises him as Li Li Zhen and Tang Guo Dong's killer. (Hilariously, I had completely forgotten about this plot point, so I was like "...ooh!" Don't ask me who I thought killed them, I have no idea.)

Meng Shao Fei runs into Tang Yi's house to find him beating up Ah-Zhi.



Ah-Zhi confesses, Tang Yi tries to shoot him, and Meng Shao Fei throws himself in front of the bullet!

Comments

[doctorskuld]

It's very interesting that you feel that way, because I actually like that scene. There is a lot less physical contact of the hugging kind in Asian culture, so MSF embracing TY when he is upset actually feels like a very tender and caring gesture to me. In the type of household I was raised in (and several of my friends who are Chinese diaspora), a situation in which I was upset and crying would have merited me being left alone in a dark room to cry it out, and sort out my emotions by myself. I would have been left alone even if I would have wanted comfort.

So the fact that MSF recognizes that that isn't healthy, and comes to TY and physically comforts him is actually the exact opposite and creepy and non-con to me. The fact he does this because of the emotional gravitas, instead of leaving TY alone, and tries to get him to confront his feelings and to recognize that TY doesn't have to bear his grief alone is a pivotal moment in cementing the emotional connection of their relationship. I feel like this scene tells the audience that MSF is willing to be equal partners with TY and help him through this moment of intense pain, as opposed to just wanting to see the nice, composed part of TY. That is what I feel when I watch it, anyway.

I wonder if there's a huge cultural difference in the interpretation of this scene, and if a part of why it's also less creepy to me is the same-sex dynamics? I feel that maybe this scene would read a lot more dub-con to me if the one struggling was female.

[bonibaru]

Let me be more clear: it's not the embracing that I don't like. I love that MSF is trying to comfort him that way. I love that he's wrapped himself around Tang Yi like a koala clinging to a tree. It's the sudden angry kissing and almost biting, the tearing at MSF's clothes, the kissing down his chest while sobbing, that's way too rape-y and very fucked up. I can't think of a cultural reason that trying to initiate sexual contact in the middle of an emotional breakdown would be more acceptable :)

Edited: in other words it's not the ENTIRE scene. It's that part of the scene that I loathe. It wasn't necessary. It was awful to see and to think that they were really going to show their first time being intimate like that as almost a physical fight.

[doctorskuld]

Oh, I misread or misunderstood what you said, apologies.

I interpret that reaction as an extreme short-circuit in TY's brain because he is in such emotional pain. I get your feeling that it is non-con and rape-y, and I think that the directors probably intended it be like that. It's not supposed to be sexy. But TY is like...literally out of his mind. I'm glad that MSF comforts him enough with hugs, and they don't do anything while TY is crazy with grief.

I can see why it's still hard to watch nonetheless.

[her_cool_aunt]

I also find TY's angry kissing and pawing at MSF's clothing very uncomfortable to watch but I can believe why it's happening with this character - as per the brain short-circuiting with distress description above. Therefore, although I don't LIKE this part of an otherwise gorgeous scene, I don't dislike that something of this nature is shown. TY is a gangster, who carries a knuckleduster in his pocket for easy access violence and has ordered people to be assassinated. We may be shown a relatively soft-focus version of him elsewhere but he has his brutal moments too. Under such excruciating emotional pressure, I don't see it as unrealistic for him to be acting in a rough and pretty non-con way - although it only goes so far. MSF manages to comfort him enough and things become purely emotional and not physical. This idea of showing unpleasant but, to me, realistic behaviour is something I've been thinking about a lot in relation to the Thai BL drama Tharntype, which has A LOT of things that I wouldn't want anyone viewing as reasonable or even forgiveable but yet are probably more realistic than not. (Some thoughts I may explore in more depth elsewhere.)

[doctorskuld]

Very eloquently put! Agree with you on your take of TY here.

[her_cool_aunt]

Thanks!

[joatamon]

Have you written down your Tharntype thoughts anywhere? (I also have a few o_O)

[her_cool_aunt]

I haven’t written down much but there are a few high-level points in this Asian drama post. Here on Dreamwidth I haven’t really got into writing my own stuff, just joining in discussions. However, I did write this post for a Discord group I’m in. If you want to start chatting about TT by replying/reacting to my post, I’m cool with that. :-)